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freddie
08-02-2007, 05:08 PM
I notcied that we only have one listing for each year of the Topps Gallery Press Plates. It appears that Kevin has the 02 Cyan plate and Jonas has a different color. I believe we should break these plates down and list them by color.

jjt111
08-02-2007, 05:33 PM
I don't know how Jonas marked that he had one. Must need to make his mouse pointer smaller. Either way they should be listed seperate as Cyan, Magenta, Black and Yellow.

jzk_ksy
08-02-2007, 05:41 PM
Just to update my 97 new pinnacle press plates #68 FRONT is Black...#68 Back is magenta and the keeping the pace FRONT is Cyan...

Kevin

freddie
08-02-2007, 05:46 PM
So, all card editors, put it on your agenda to separate out the press plates that weren't released as a set, such as the one that Mike has.

freddie
08-02-2007, 06:44 PM
Kevin, you bring up another point. Some of the press plates come in front/back versions while others are just the front. We need to distinguish them even further in this regard.

freddie
08-02-2007, 07:09 PM
Keven I expanded all of the pinnacle press plates so you'll need to adjust your totals and move the pictures around appropriately.

Are the pinnacle plates backdoor plates? I think we should consider moving all backdoor plates to the oddball list and keep only officially issued plates on the main list.

jzk_ksy
08-02-2007, 07:21 PM
Freddie,All my press plates were inserted into packs...while I pulled none of them,I'm sure they were inserts...

Kevin

freddie
08-02-2007, 07:23 PM
That's great, I don't think we have any backdoor plates on the list currently so those types should go on the oddball list. Like the ted williams plates that were on eBay in the past year.

Gonzaleznut
08-02-2007, 10:36 PM
That's great, I don't think we have any backdoor plates on the list currently so those types should go on the oddball list. Like the ted williams plates that were on eBay in the past year.

I have a Pacific Omega back door press plate.

freddie
08-02-2007, 10:49 PM
I have a Pacific Omega back door press plate.
Add it to the oddball list.

jjt111
08-02-2007, 10:54 PM
How about our XXX/100 backdoor cards then. Or my avator card, unreleased or so called proto/sample 1998 Select numbers. I don't feel we will be flooded with press plate cards and because of that and some other nice back door stuff I lean to have them on the main list. If they didn't go for so much I would also have em. But I don't.

freddie
08-02-2007, 10:58 PM
I assume that almost every card has 8 or more press plates that were employed in the manufacturer of that card. They seem very much a different category that something that was intentionally produced, such as XXX/XXX, sample, unreleased cards. Those items should be on the main list, as they are now.

jjt111
03-15-2008, 08:58 PM
I have a Pacific Omega back door press plate.


Shouldn't these remain on the odd ball page and not the one of one page?

I was also hoping for input from others besides myself and Rob on the proof cards (oversize cards) before we have proofers proofs to add!

Jonas

http://www.geocities.com/jjt111/proofersproof.jpg

Gonzaleznut
03-15-2008, 11:24 PM
I have comments about both issues Jonas is bringing up. This is just my opinion:

1) All press plates, unless proven to have more than one copy should go on the 1 of 1 list. It does't matter if they came out the front or back door. They are legitimate versions of mainstream cards.

2) A "proof" constitutes a card that carries the same or very similar characteristics as the underlying card. The main difference is they are generally larger in size. Not only is the overall dimensions of the card bigger than standard, but the actual picture itself is larger. I have heard that this was done as a final color check for the card manufacturers. Therefore, any card that fits that description should be added to the list.

Now, the real question is where do they go...regular list or oddball??

nosterbor
03-16-2008, 12:46 AM
reg list on the"OVER SIZE PROOFS"!!!!!!! 1/1 list on the press plates,i do not care if they came from packs,the back door,or fell from the sky!!!!!!!!!

adelith
03-16-2008, 02:27 AM
I think there will be more people listing their collections in full, if they believe that there is a posibility of reach the 100% of a particular year, but if every now & then a card that is not part of the regular production is added to the list the percentage goes down instead of increase making almost impossible to reach the 100%. In my opinion every backdoor card, proof card, error card etc should go on the "odd"ball" list. What are the odds of find an error card that is not part of the regular production, one in a million? I have like 10 different backdoor press plates that are not listed, i don't care if they are listed or not, nor the procedence of them. Let's make possible to reach the top on the main list, and list everything else on the oddball list. No offense! :cool:

nosterbor
03-16-2008, 09:34 PM
you can not do that! would you like to have the serial # to 5 that you have all 5 of put on the oddball list? NO ONE ELSE WILL GET ONE! what about all the #/2 cards? no one will ever get 100% of all the cards from 1996-2005 not even a single one of those years. way to many very rare cards. the ony way that will happen is if the human race were to become almost wiped out and about 500,000 people were left,and someone went around to all the card shops and into peoples homes that were dead,and took all the cards they could find. that would be the only way it could happen. sounds morbid,but thats about the only way it could happen. if that did happen who the hell would care about a card collection! NOT ME! NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE,JUST VERY UNLIKELY.

jjt111
03-16-2008, 11:49 PM
I’m an uneducated (high school and 12 credits from community college) layman who has worked in a manufacturing plant the last 31 years. But I have some printing and blanking press machine experience to share. First they seem to be confused about printing plates and press plates. Printing plates will be the mirror image of the card and press plates will be the normal image. I feel most think they are the same thing but press plates would go behind the printing plate.. But they seem to use both terms for the press plate. Most have only one press plate. There is little reason to have more except for resale I guess. Normally because of the color mix they end up black.

Must cards are run through a four color printing machine and sheets are 27” X 40”. They are then run through a blanking press that has 5/16” to a ” of lead trim and 1/8” to 1/4” of inside and perimeter waste that is carried through the machine and in to waste bins.

You can look up baseball sheets on Ebay and will see that some sheets have a profound borders and some don’t but either way it will be the same picture if you cut it out with scissors except the border will be bigger as you can take from the other surrounding cards or the picture itself will continue a little longer to make a bigger card. The machine has what they call lay stops that advise you if it was inserted correctly into the machine but sheets are transported into the machine with a vacuum system and can be within 1/16” on every sheet being feed.

I haven’t run a machine since they took my tools away from me and have never seen a baseball sheet made but cigarette packs to display boxes can’t be that different.

I have many sheets from the yearly 90’s as I had a friend who owned a recycling plant that had some sent to them to be recycled into fiber board. If I wanted to get rid of them, which I don’t, I would be wise to cut the more popular playing cards out a little larger and call them a proof and would surely improve my income from them. Yes I could also make a regular card but what value would that be to a collector.

Here is a picture of me some 15 years ago in a brochure that our company had made with me working on a 35 x 48 Bobst blanking machine.

I will not change my stance on oversize cards unless there is an appearance change other then a bigger or extended surface because of the above knowledge. At best they could be added to the oddball page but then do you add the known sheets?

Stepping off my soap box,
Jonas

nosterbor
03-17-2008, 01:08 AM
on the sheets you have are the pictures larger? have you looked at the 96 gallery card i put in a post? can you explain this as coming from a sheet? not to sound neg,but i do have an inside track of how these were printed as i explained in a past post. as for the jimmy dean its 15% larger than a reg card,the whole card not just the border. i will send you a copy of the post over size proof and the jimmy dean.it is hard to compair in just a photo. when you get them let us know what you think.it might sheet some light on this subject.

adelith
03-17-2008, 02:09 AM
Please send copy of those to me too, I want to take part in that judgement!:D

on the sheets you have are the pictures larger? have you looked at the 96 gallery card i put in a post? can you explain this as coming from a sheet? not to sound neg,but i do have an inside track of how these were printed as i explained in a past post. as for the jimmy dean its 15% larger than a reg card,the whole card not just the border. i will send you a copy of the post over size proof and the jimmy dean.it is hard to compair in just a photo. when you get them let us know what you think.it might sheet some light on this subject.

jjt111
03-17-2008, 02:31 AM
I looked and don't have a sheet of the 96 Gallery cards. But if I did I'm sure it would be made without boarders and just an oversize printing plate so when waste is removed it wouldn't have a boarder to be graded by. Meaning it could be made from that sheet with scissors if in fact that is correct. Either way, if it was used as a proof or a run inspection it would just be a sheet cut out unless it was kept on file and then it would have some identifying mark. If not it's just an oddball card that can be made like the one I made above from a sheet!

jjt111
03-17-2008, 02:49 AM
Roberto, the card he is talking about is this one http://juangone.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=901&d=1201478830

which I still feel was cut an 1/8" bigger as it is a borderless plate sheet.

nosterbor
03-17-2008, 02:55 AM
the whole picture of the card is magnified larger! you will see when you get one.

freddie
03-17-2008, 06:10 PM
My opinion has not changed:
Pack Issued Press Plates: One of One List

Backdoor Plates: Oddball List

Proofs having an image/contents that are the same as the regular issue card but having extra material: Not on the list at all
If you can take a pair of scissors and modify your proof so that it looks like the regular card then it can be classified no different than a card cut from a sheet.

Proofs having an image/contents that are larger/smaller than the regular card: Oddball list

jzk_ksy
03-17-2008, 07:29 PM
I agree with Freddie...all my press plates were pack inserts...all say 1/1...do the backdoor plates have 1/1 on them?...as far as oversize proofs,I'm ok either way list,oddball, or even not at all....

Kevin

Gonzaleznut
03-18-2008, 01:32 AM
http://www.juangone.com/pictures.php?cardid=95560

Where should this card go then???

This was a card that escaped as Pinnacle was going belly-up. It was never issued in packs.


I thought the ultimate goal here is to try to create the most comprehensive list of Juan Gonzalez items. Does it really matter where they are catalogued?? Now, I am all for having the list be as accurate as possible, but, seriously, who gives a rat's butt if the back door press plates are in the 1/1 list or the oddball? Who gives a flying elephant (those would have been a lot better if could have just cursed) whether proofs are listed where?

It is most important to identify items that exist...period. All the rest of it just seems petty.

Rafferity
03-18-2008, 03:05 AM
Actually I believe the card needs to stay where it's at. The card was issued in a TEAM PINNACLE Collector's Club tin. It has hockey, football and baseball cards. And 3 coins in it. I still have my tin and the packs are sealed with Juan's on the back of the pack. Now coming in a tin and released in the collector's club, it could be considered an oddball. But that's the call of others here on the site.

jjt111
03-18-2008, 04:12 AM
The Team Pinnacle was a card that was released. You had to join the club to recieve one.
I was told that the 93 Elite Jumbo file promo that I have was a one of a kind but I see Mr Johnson has one as well :(
Back door Pinnacle and Pacific cards are possible as they went under and their investors and vendors could claim any inventory and sell it to recoop some of their losses. Topps hasn't yet and do auction off some proofs and plates but they are like what Kevin say's marked as so. So any thing from Topps would be so identified and not left up to our imagination.
The plates in my opinion doesn't matter.
It's the oversize cards that I have an issue with and honestly feel the sellers are taking advantage of collectors with a pair of scissors.

After being away I found I had to go through the log to try and up date my lists as they weren't in a open forum disscussion like this one.

Might get your blood pressure up but it's needed. Plus I got some new pills that will all but stop your blood pressure completely ;)