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View Full Version : variations - are we missing any?


538
03-13-2010, 03:54 PM
Check out the outdated web site for Frank Thomas. This guy put a great amount of time explaining the differences in cards. Does any of his work apply to Gonzalez that we may have overlooked?

http://www.frankthomascollection.com/1990_Checklist.html

nosterbor
03-13-2010, 05:25 PM
i am glad you brought this up!!!! i did before to Mike and he refuse's to add them. case in point the 90 donruss has 6 variation's a period and no period after the copy right on the back upper right.the lines going into the name on top of the card etc. he said some thing to the effect of COFFEE STAINS!!!!!! I also have the 91 stadium variation of the c/d before the copy right.the c is the rarest,i only looked at 20 cards and have 2 c's.but then again it could be COFFEE STAINS OR COOKIE CRUMS!I WILL NOT WAIST MY TIME SCANNING THESE BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT BE ADDED!any die hard Juan collector would look for these type's of card's.THERE ARE ONLY 3 OF US LEFT!i am done adding scans of ANYTHING. i am still going through the guy list and will add these to MY list.so far i have found 4.very cool thanks,Dan!when i am done i will let YOU know.

adelith
03-14-2010, 08:32 AM
Well, I would like to see them, Can you scanned them and send them to me via email?

i am glad you brought this up!!!! i did before to Mike and he refuse's to add them. case in point the 90 donruss has 6 variation's a period and no period after the copy right on the back upper right.the lines going into the name on top of the card etc. he said some thing to the effect of COFFEE STAINS!!!!!! I also have the 91 stadium variation of the c/d before the copy right.the c is the rarest,i only looked at 20 cards and have 2 c's.but then again it could be COFFEE STAINS OR COOKIE CRUMS!I WILL NOT WAIST MY TIME SCANNING THESE BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT BE ADDED!any die hard Juan collector would look for these type's of card's.THERE ARE ONLY 3 OF US LEFT!i am done adding scans of ANYTHING. i am still going through the guy list and will add these to MY list.so far i have found 4.very cool thanks,Dan!when i am done i will let YOU know.

538
03-14-2010, 02:48 PM
Me too. I am interested.

Gonzaleznut
03-18-2010, 08:07 PM
THERE ARE ONLY 3 OF US LEFT!

By the way, who are the three that are left?

nosterbor
03-19-2010, 01:44 AM
"I am glad now that I collect Pudge"

this has been on ebay for 2 weeks and you do not have it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250589738689&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

ohhhh so sorry you do not collect coffee stained cards!

Gonzaleznut
03-19-2010, 01:09 PM
You are right. I do not consider that to be a legit Juan card...AND even if I did, I would not pay $15 with shipping for it.

I collect both Juan and Pudge. If you look at items I have bid on you will notice that I am also buying a lot of different stuff to expand my collection.

nosterbor
03-19-2010, 06:56 PM
you are right paying 18 bucks for a tough Juan card is high.
i guess this one was high also

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230445420596&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

ohhhhh it is a gold! a Griffey Jr sold 2 weeks ago for $93 and was listed as a gold. you could have won this for the $18 shipped.but then again you could not tell it was a gold,i could.
i am so glad i collect Variations! it what makes collecting even BETTER. the thrill of the hunt.

538
03-24-2010, 04:20 AM
More variations:
1990 Bowman 1st printing/2nd printing: airbushed uniforms, backgrounds
1990 Bowman Art Cards: single or double asterisk on back (* or **)
1990 Donruss INC/INC. : in copyright on back
1990 Donruss Splatter variations: factory and wax/rack/cello versions differ
1990 Donruss Grand Slammers: with or without black bars in back borders
1990 Fleer All-Stars: text cropping variations on back
1990 Fleer Baseball MVP's: Thick black line/bar at top of photo/border
1990 Fleer Canadian: copyright on back notes being printed in Canada on this limited release
1990 Topps Traded: Gray backs (wax) or White box (factory)
1990 Topps Traded: single or double asterisk on back (* or **)
1990 Upper Deck No Copyright: cards #101-199 with or without copyright line on back
1991 Bowman E*: players with E** print designations can be found with E**, E*, E * variations.
1991 Donruss INC/INC. Noticeable by the lighter and darker cardstock
1991 Donruss Border variations: Factory and wax/rack/cello versions differ
1991 Donruss Grand Slammers: Blue and Green borders
1991 Donruss Grand Slammers: Blue bordered cards have three different varieties
1991 Fleer: due to use of 2 different printers, each card comes in two versions, most very minor
1991 Stadium Club: most (possibly all) cards come in 2 different print designations (ex: A* and B*)
1991 Topps A* and B*: all cards with this print designation come in either bold red 40th or dull/ghosted 40th logo on back
1991 Topps Traded: Gray backs (wax) or White backs (factory)
1991 Topps Traded: single or double asterisk on back (* or **) (gray backs only)
1991 Upper Deck: Holograms on back come in four different ways: 90-91-style (used for hi# 90-91 Hockey), 1990-baseball style (used for 1990 UD baseball), 1991-style (used for many 1991 UD products) and in 1992 style (used on 1992 UD, 1991-92 Hi # NBA/NFL and NHL).
1991 US Playing Card All Stars: US copyright, International Copyright and US Copyright/Silver Edged versions exist.
1992 Bowman E*: E* sheet players can be found in an E variation (no asterisk).
1992 Bowman Foil: All the non-"SP" foils come in two different photo croppings.
1992 Donruss INC/INC.
1992 Investors Journals: Blue, Gold, Purple borders
1992 Leaf INC/INC.
1992 Leaf Black Gold: Some, possibly all can be found in INC and INC. versions
1992 Score Dream Team: Backs face left or right
1992 Score #736-776: Come with or without the "rookie prospect" banner on front
1992 Stadium Club: most (possibly all) cards come in 2 different print designations (ex: A* and B*)
1992 Topps McDonald's : single asterisk or double asterisk (* or **)
1994 Upper Deck Collector's Choice Future Foundation: Silver Sig cards can be found with base-white lettering on front or with appropriate silver lettering on front.
1994 Upper Deck Collector's Choice Future Foundation: first letter in text on back can be found in white or gray color.
1994 SP Foils: come in either white names on back or gold/bronze names on back
1994 Upper Deck Electric Diamond: some, possibly all series 1 cards come in a "silver" version where the stat heading bar on back is silver instead or bronze
1995 Stadium Club Foil Subsets (Transactions/Extreme Corps): Minimum of 4 different color varieties.
1997 Score Hobby Reserve: HR prefix to number and no prefix types exist.
1997 Upper Deck Capture the Flag: some, possibly all cards in this subset come in either white or gold backs
1998 Finest Mystery Finest: Base, refractor number identified with 'R', Refractor number identified with 'Refractor', Refractor identified with 'R' with no refraction
2004 Topps Series 2: Some cards can be found with "53 Years of Collecting" stamped on front under name.

adelith
03-24-2010, 05:33 AM
Thank you so much for posting the list. Please if anybody found any of the applicable difference on a Juan Gonzalez card Please let me know to added it to the list.
Thank you very much!

nosterbor
03-24-2010, 03:24 PM
i will send you scans this weekend.

nosterbor
03-28-2010, 05:12 PM
here are the 91 stadium club c and d
the d is the first. notice the d is to the right of the sb the c is to the left. i went thru 30 and only found the one c.

nosterbor
03-28-2010, 06:09 PM
1992 stadium club E and F
the F is also 1 in 30

nosterbor
03-28-2010, 06:22 PM
1990 donruss Period after INC and no Period after INC
the corrected card is 1.5 to 1 with no Period
however the Reverse Neg is rare only 17% have the no Period
the first card is the no period.

nosterbor
03-28-2010, 06:58 PM
1990 donruss the 2 black lines are going into the name this variation in very rare and were shown in a late 1990 beckett,sorry i do not have the beckett. out of the the almost 400 correct vertion i only have 8 of these also i have only "one" with the black lines and no period after inc on the back. i do not have a reverse neg with the black lines.

nosterbor
03-28-2010, 07:05 PM
here is another rare one 1990 donruss with black lines and a Yellow period under the O in Gonzalez i only have 5 of these and they all have the period after inc on the back.

adelith
03-28-2010, 08:03 PM
I don't know about you Juan collectors out there, but I'm impressed about the lot of variations that we are missing. Rob put scans of some examples, basically 3 cards with variations, but I found my self around 5 more cards with variations looking through my doubles. Now since we have several messages showing that other collectors (Non Juan) use our site for reference I truly think we should add this variations to the list. But first I would like to know your opinion about how we should list them, please reply! Thank you very much!

nosterbor
03-28-2010, 08:38 PM
here is another one.a 1992 donruss his name is in silver the card on the top and dark gray the card on the bottom.this is not a color variation the picture and color are the same no dark shades just the name is a lot darker. of the 400++ cards i have.i only have 3 of the dark gray name.as far as the period after inc on the back all the dark gray name cards have the period after INC. the silver cards have both. i have not gone thru them all.they are on my list and have been for some time,i no longer care if they are listed here or not! i have more i will scan for you when i have time also ask Jonas to scan the Juan wrong back he just won with Ripken on the back very cool card!

538
03-29-2010, 03:58 AM
I suggest a new category for variations. That way if someone thinks that this is all just coffee stains they can skip this section. Personally, I like knowing the differences. I had previously pointed out the 1987 card with a big C which I think is a fake card and the little c which I think is real for the 1987 Gastonia card. Some of the differences the Rob has shown, such as the various Stadium Club are possibly a result of the mfg trying out different vendors for printing? We really do not know which vendors are used by the mfg. If we start a new category we will eventually figure out the real cards from fakes. When you look at the Donruss card from Rob you have to wonder if the printer was lazy and used left over ink or if it is a different printing shop used different color ink because they did not get the notice on ink color. We obviously have examples where the printer was just trying to get a card centered or right color ink. Examples of this are the 1990 Bowman with Ryan Sandberg on front. Because I like looking at it does not mean it is everyone's cup of tea. You also need a lot of doubles to know there is a difference. Rob also had to spend a lot of time to figure out there is a difference. This site would really be a lot different that just a collector site if we could have a variation section.

gonzologan
03-29-2010, 03:16 PM
i think that the no period cards and diffrent letters should be added as for the 1009 donruss black line and yellow dot i dont think that those should be added i have some of the black line ones but i think that those are printing errors same thing with the 92 donruss but thats just my input

freddie
03-29-2010, 03:48 PM
I don't see how a variation only category list would work.

I would put variation cards on the list right next to the normal card and just put "Variation", or similar, in the title with a required picture illustrating the variation. I see no reason that the variations shouldn't be listed, what does it hurt? Then it would be possible to just search on "Variation" to get a list of them all.

nosterbor
03-29-2010, 04:09 PM
thats a great idea. as for the 92 donruss name color, it is just the name that is a diff color.the rest of the photo color is the same.if it were a shade diff the whole card would be darker and it is not.

538
03-29-2010, 04:55 PM
As long as the narrative is included when searching the card it should work. Without Robs narrative it would be difficult to spot the difference.

freddie
03-29-2010, 05:04 PM
Narratives will either have to be part of the title or included as part of the picture as there isn't a way to add something else at present.

adelith
03-29-2010, 11:03 PM
At least, I belive we are now moving on the right direction. To determine how they should be added is a possitive thing, not just for the Juan's collectors, but for all the visitors that use this site as a reference also. Just to make sure, if the card is added on the current existing year, should start as:
Variation 1990 Donruss - No period after INC - (On Description Field)

jzk_ksy
04-03-2010, 02:26 PM
I agree that the variations should be added...aren't we trying to make this site the most "complete" Juan Gonzalez collectors site?

Kevin

adelith
04-03-2010, 06:21 PM
Variations added! The only one I decide not to add is the 33 Donruss with yellow dot under letter O because after search mines I found A- Yellow dot over J. B- Yellow dot under O. C- Yellow dot after Z. Plus a couple of white dots here and there, so I believed those are some kind of dirt marks on the printers.

jzk_ksy
04-03-2010, 08:23 PM
Nice job Roberto!!! However in my opinion the donruss error with Lonnie Smith should not be added...it is a miscut not a variation...its a card that is way off center thats all...

Kevin

nosterbor
04-03-2010, 09:06 PM
here is a 1996 stadium club "no foil no name"

adelith
04-03-2010, 09:23 PM
Thank you very much, your opinions are always welcome! In relation to the Donruss with Lonnie, that's why I list it as an error, not as a variation.

Nice job Roberto!!! However in my opinion the donruss error with Lonnie Smith should not be added...it is a miscut not a variation...its a card that is way off center thats all...

Kevin

adelith
04-04-2010, 05:29 AM
Rob, card listed! Please keep'em coming, in the future send both front & back scans of the card if possible.
Thank you very much!

here is a 1996 stadium club "no foil no name"

nosterbor
04-04-2010, 02:48 PM
Roberto. the 92 Donruss silver name with a period after inc is the reg card not a variation please correct. this should be just the 92 donruss and the first one listed.

Gonzaleznut
04-04-2010, 04:22 PM
Roberto. the 92 Donruss silver name with a period after inc is the reg card not a variation please correct. this should be just the 92 donruss and the first one listed.

How the heck do you know which one is the regular card and which is the variation?? What if Donruss meant for the non-silver name to be the card and the other one is the variation?

Just because one is more common does not mean anything. Unless you worked for Donruss and can tell me which one was the one intended to be released you are only speculating.

To each his own, but I think this is all so stupid. I mean seriously...the fact that you care whether or not there is a period after "Inc" is ridiculous.

gonzologan
04-04-2010, 05:03 PM
the 1992 Leaf also has a no Period after the INC

gonzologan
04-04-2010, 05:11 PM
the 1992 Topps Kids has 1* and 2* before the copyright

adelith
04-04-2010, 10:52 PM
It is listed under Leaf variation.

the 1992 Leaf also has a no Period after the INC

adelith
04-04-2010, 11:06 PM
Can you send me any pictures, please?

the 1992 Topps Kids has 1* and 2* before the copyright

nosterbor
04-05-2010, 12:26 AM
How the heck do you know which one is the regular card and which is the variation?? What if Donruss meant for the non-silver name to be the card and the other one is the variation?

Just because one is more common does not mean anything. Unless you worked for Donruss and can tell me which one was the one intended to be released you are only speculating.

To each his own, but I think this is all so stupid. I mean seriously...the fact that you care whether or not there is a period after "Inc" is ridiculous.
let me see.1st do you have a 1992 donruss with his name in dark gray? 2nd i have found 3 out of 100 with the dark gray name,i would bet even a person a few fries short of a happy meal would say the silver one is the reg card.3rd as far as being STUPID & RIDICULOUS well i am glad you collect PUDGE!

gonzologan
04-05-2010, 01:09 AM
for some reason i cant post pictures on here i can scan them and send it to your email and i have your email Can you send me any pictures, please?

adelith
04-05-2010, 01:35 AM
Card & Pictures added! Please keep'em coming!
Thank you very much!

for some reason i cant post pictures on here i can scan them and send it to your email and i have your email

freddie
04-05-2010, 03:16 PM
I believe this card is pushing it

http://www.juangone.com/pictures.php?cardid=96223

The text is lighter as well, it just isn't the logo.

gonzologan
04-05-2010, 03:17 PM
I Agree

I believe this card is pushing it

http://www.juangone.com/pictures.php?cardid=96223

The text is lighter as well, it just isn't the logo.

adelith
04-05-2010, 04:17 PM
I listed based on the list of cards from the original message "variations we are missing" When I check my doubles I notice the difference.

I believe this card is pushing it

http://www.juangone.com/pictures.php?cardid=96223

The text is lighter as well, it just isn't the logo.

nosterbor
04-07-2010, 05:38 AM
did any one BOTHER to look at the color of the B O R D E R ??

they are the same shade of R E D !!!!!!!!!!!!!

freddie
04-08-2010, 12:00 AM
I did notice the border but I still think it walks the line as a valid variation.

Maybe they printed the borders in one run and printed the rest in another run.

nosterbor
04-08-2010, 01:42 AM
Jonas where are you?

jjt111
04-08-2010, 04:47 AM
My opinion is that the framed text and background are lighter and should be added to the list if found in quantity so that more than just one exists. I would like to add one to my collection. Many dollars and eyes are spent to match print run colors and poor board quality or after print lighting wouldn’t alter just one area like that so I expect it was an approved 2nd run tell tale.

jzk_ksy
04-11-2010, 06:26 PM
I found a couple of 91 Bowman that have no period after the "INC" as well as a few that do have it...I'll post pics later...

Kevin

mcabee1
04-11-2010, 07:31 PM
i farted on one of my 1991 fleer cards - then i left another one in the rain and it bloated all up - do these count?

jzk_ksy
04-18-2010, 06:42 PM
I must be getting old...upon furthe inspection all my 91 bowman dupes do have the period after the INC..

nosterbor
04-18-2010, 07:35 PM
here is a nice variation a 2002 upper deck 40 man electric rainbow card #1121 hand written,not stamped.a replacement card? someone at upper deck was to lazy to stamp the card in the sticker area but just wrote the number in.prob,a one of a kind. it 3 months to get this card from the seller a Sandberg collector.

adelith
04-19-2010, 03:08 AM
Card added!

here is a nice variation a 2002 upper deck 40 man electric rainbow card #1121 hand written,not stamped.a replacement card? someone at upper deck was to lazy to stamp the card in the sticker area but just wrote the number in.prob,a one of a kind. it 3 months to get this card from the seller a Sandberg collector.

nosterbor
05-02-2010, 06:46 PM
here is an 02 Flair. the card on the right is the variation it is very light dull bronze color the correct one on the left is very shinny copper.i think i sent Kevin one some time ago and he said there was a big difference.

Gonzaleznut
05-03-2010, 02:04 PM
Seriously??? Some moron at the printer adds a little too much dye to a batch of cards and it is a variation??

I am so tired of this...my head hurts.


here is an 02 Flair. the card on the right is the variation it is very light dull bronze color the correct one on the left is very shinny copper.i think i sent Kevin one some time ago and he said there was a big difference.

nosterbor
05-03-2010, 04:03 PM
so sorry you are wrong this time! it is foil not INK! and the card that is really rare was not even added the 03 Studio Gold Beckett sample?:confused: