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freddie
11-12-2006, 12:46 AM
I would like to propose removing the magazine cut out cards from the list. If one were to really want to collect these cards, it would seem to be more desireable to have the card uncut still in the magazine.

Anyone have any strong objections?

If not, then I'll start compiling a list of cut out cards to be removed.

jjt111
11-12-2006, 04:53 PM
The Keebler Elves would like to know if it is all magazine cut outs. Does it matter if they are perforated to be ripped out like they are or not? Does the Line up figurines fit in there as you have to buy the package to get the card so why wouldn’t you want to collect the whole package as is said about the magazine cards? Does cereal or other food product cut outs not fit the same reasoning? Will that include the Panini stickers as you had to buy a kit and instead of cutting them out you where meant to put them in the book. They just want to feel out were the censorship starts and ends.

freddie
11-12-2006, 11:22 PM
I have no qualms with the perforated cards like Keebler, or panini stickers, a valid MLB product. It is mainly just the cards cut out of magazines.

If a starting lineup came with a card in the package then that is vald. Creating a card buy cutting a picture out of a package is not ok.

I guess that is where I would like to draw the line, do not include cards that were created by cutting them out of something else, something the isn't marketed as a card product.

jjt111
11-12-2006, 11:58 PM
I know of no card on your list that meets that criteria of being of magazine thin material and not be listed as a collectable baseball card in the magazine itself.

Gonzaleznut
11-13-2006, 07:29 PM
I agree with Jonas. Where is the line drawn???

If it is licensed by MLB and/or produced by a card company then, in my opinion, it should be on the list.

Case in point:

http://www.vintagegaming.org/juangonzalez/pictures.php?cardid=2405

This is an item distributed by Fleer, but it is not a card. It is on the list though and I think it should remain there.

I believe that everyone will have there own unique way of catalouging their collections. I think that the purpose of this website should be to have as complete a list of items as possible.

freddie
11-13-2006, 07:31 PM
I thought you didn't think the magazine cards 'counted'? Have you changed your mind? Are you saying a card cut out of "Sports Cards" magazine is a licensed product?

I never insinuated that the Fleer Legacy cap should be removed. I would never consider removing an item released by any of the card manufacturers, be them cards or not. I am only referring to the fake cards, and you know what I mean by fake.

Gonzaleznut
11-13-2006, 07:38 PM
No...I am not changing my mind. I still don't think they should count. So, for my own list I do not include them, but I do think they should be listed on this website. I also do not include the stupid game cards with only a bunch of stats on them. I think this should be the consumate source for everything Juan.

jjt111
11-13-2006, 09:41 PM
What I think you’ll find is that it is hard to eliminate a collectable item of his from a “master” list of his cards. Years ago you didn’t have the technology or communication between companies to have a licensed card in a magazine. The Investors/Baseball/Sports magazine cards are no different then the Beckett sample cards that were placed in their magazine in this century except now we have the know-how to add the card while in production as well as the communication tools to get a card manufacture to supply the cards.
I like those stupid game cards (just busting) as I had enjoyed playing them many years ago and they died out because, like most board games, got computerized. Most player collectors of my age or older kept them because it added to their collection. Until the mid-90’s it was difficult to come across many items of a certain player. Thanks to places like Ebay and Beckett you no longer have that problem and few waste the time to collect them.
I grew up in a time you traded cards in person and delivered them with your extra cards in your bicycle spokes just to show off and to hear the roar it made while riding. Hell, I can still hear that noise as I’m writing this. What I’m trying to say is when that footlocker card that either Chris or Dan won on Ebay years ago was of no interest to me as it was someone playing around as you don’t have a 93 card with 91 paper on it. But that card went for over fifty bucks and is on my list as it was thought of as a collectable item for a couple of the larger collectors.
So if Freddy’s list is just certain items, no cut outs unless they are MLB licensed but the BYN cards are fine because they are a card but not a MLB licensed product and the Hamburger card is OK because it is a MLB approved even though it is a cut out. Then it becomes just another collectors “have and want list”. Of which we all have our own to begin with. I kind of expected that like the sports coin that was added we also added a collection of the same as another item as it was something that someone might want to add to their collection but if not they just wouldn’t add it to their list.
I feel with this type of dialog and Freddy’s wiliness and knowledge, along with a little help from others adding pictures and card info that this would be the most informed collectable site of any player. It certainly is heading in that direction.:D

The hat Mike was referring to I also have and didn’t realize how small Juan’s head was (6 7/8).

freddie
11-13-2006, 09:52 PM
He has a big foot though, the GU cleats I have are size 12.

Then it becomes just another collectors “have and want list”. Of which we all have our own to begin with. I kind of expected that like the sports coin that was added we also added a collection of the same as another item as it was something that someone might want to add to their collection but if not they just wouldn’t add it to their list.You need to expand on this. I am not sure if you if this is a slight criticism at me for adding the larger collection of coins to the list or if it a token of support for adding another item to the list.

You both seem to be proposing that we list every collectible. If that is the case then why is the list missing so many items??? Neither one of you have ever suggested non card related items to be added to the list. I have all sorts of things in my closet that aren't listed, including:

- beanie babies
- bobbleheads
- nesting dolls,
- posters
- mini posters
- magazine covers
- Malta India Light beverage container
.. etc

Shall we start listing *everything* that we know of? That we see on eBay if it has Juan's picture on it or has something to do with him?

My main issue is that why do we list the cutout of the card and not the actual item that it came from, where it can be obtained in an unaltered state?

freddie
11-13-2006, 09:59 PM
I guess it is really all up to me to create a system to display the "cards" and to display "the other stuff" in a cohesive manner and then decide if anything is currently on the "cards" list that should be moved to the "other stuff" list.

jjt111
11-13-2006, 09:59 PM
No criticism meant at all. You opened a different way of thinking when you suggest to include the package it came from with the coin. Basically much like you are saying about the magazine cards except you are only applying it to cut outs and not to the Keebler or Topps Kids cards which is confusing me.

jjt111
11-13-2006, 10:03 PM
I keep everything in a book if possible so that is why I would never retain the magazine. But that is just me.

freddie
11-13-2006, 10:04 PM
Oh I think the keebler and topps card need to also signify what they are. I never knew that the keebler card was pulled out of a giveaway of perforated cards until that set was sent to me with the 3000 other cards I bought.

What if the cutout cards said something in their description such as "Cutout of Topps Magazine" so that one knows that it is cutout and wasn't included as a pre-made card wrapped in plastic inside the magazine. I think that sort of distinction needs to be made clear for all cards that did not originate in the normalized card format.

jjt111
11-13-2006, 10:22 PM
I agree! Information like that is what collectors look for. Much like that blow up poster that you asked about. I threw out a bunch of them before I realized it was actually a listed card. If someone had written down it was a small poster it would of saved me a lot of time. I always talk about the Hamburger Helper card because the first box I bought I opened and looked for the card packet and thought I got ripped! It was only the second box I bought that I noticed the card on the back of the box itself.

Gonzaleznut
11-14-2006, 03:13 AM
I guess it is really all up to me to create a system to display the "cards" and to display "the other stuff" in a cohesive manner and then decide if anything is currently on the "cards" list that should be moved to the "other stuff" list.

I agree with you Freddie. There should be a "Card list" and an "Other collectible list". I think it is important to be thorough, but to distinguish between card items and other stuff. All of it is important to certain collectors.

Jonas...you have some great points too. I agree that this site is becoming something great. It is up to each of us to continue making it better. A litlle bit every day by debating relevant issues like we are doing and adding pics and cards as necessary. Each of us are contributing. I can't imagine another player site that has this much info about a player's career and collectibles. Great job Freddie & Jonas.

freddie
11-14-2006, 05:59 PM
Should this be listed?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1992-MLBPA-Button-PROOF-card-Juan-Gonzalez-Rangers_W0QQitemZ120020532354QQihZ002QQcategoryZ55 935QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

freddie
11-14-2006, 06:07 PM
And this 94 Post Proof

http://cgi.ebay.com/1994-Post-Cereals-Proof-Pair-Rangers-Juan-Gonzalez_W0QQitemZ8719138750QQihZ010QQcategoryZ559 37QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

freddie
11-14-2006, 06:54 PM
Jonas, I guess you think it should be listed if you bought it. That button proof card has been on eBay for a few months now it seems.

jjt111
11-14-2006, 06:57 PM
To me both of them where back door rumages. They weren't sent, mailed, used to promote the product or retained for card replacement. Much like these that I have. I don't feel they should be listed.

freddie
11-14-2006, 07:08 PM
What about the 93 Post Proof that is already listed?

freddie
11-14-2006, 07:15 PM
Here is something that I have a couple variations of 8.5 x 11. Should this be on the "Other Items" list?

Another question, is there anything currently listed that you think should not be?

Gonzaleznut
11-14-2006, 09:00 PM
That is a great item Freddie.

freddie
11-14-2006, 09:12 PM
I've added the back.

I also have a second copy with Juan on it that has different players.

jjt111
11-16-2006, 06:38 AM
I have that as well. Known as the tobacco poster.